posted 06-13-2001 02:30 PM            

I just deleted your comment to my news post on Akiko. I did this for many reasons:

The first reason is that I've invited Mark Crilley to visit my site and I let him know that I would be pushing my audience to find and buy copies of Akiko. I did this because I'm excited that Mark's work is still going strong
and I know that one store not carrying a book, can make a difference. It did for me, I thought he had cancelled it.

The LAST thing, I want Mark to be greeted with is a news comment bragging about how my numbers on PvP #1 outsell his. It's bad form, not very classy and certainly not neccessary.

The second reason I deleted the news post was to save you further embarrassment. Don't ask me why. I'm so upset about what you posted, I was tempted to let your cheeze hang out in the wind, but you come across as such an asshole by posting that.

Christ Chris, when you order fries with your burger do you get upset if McDonald's doesn't hang a sign in their window with the Superosity URL on it? "But I supersized my order....doesn't that buy a link on
McDonald's.com?"

Assuming that you posted that comment just to get a mass of people to your site today, I head over to superosity.com to find you more or less chastising me for daring to charge 20 bucks for a character sketch.

Think before you post on my site again.

That's something I ask of ALL my guests, even the CEO's of big time cartoon online networks.
___________
Scott R. Kurtz
Toonhound Studios http://www.pvponline.com/
kurtz@pvponline.com

MY RESPONSE
Scott:

Yowsa... this from the guy who, instead of coming to ME and telling ME you had a problem with ME using your "favorite comic online" quote, decides instead to blast me mean-spiritedly in a prominent interview on the biggest gaming site in the world. Yeah, I need to think before I say things.

Seriously, I don't care if you plug my comic, I don't care if my link is posted anywhere on PvP. Whether you believe it or not, I've actually grown past the idea of trying to get people to my site at all, aside from the Newsbox appearances. The thing about the plug was obviously a JOKE, as indicated partly by the smiley faces after it.

It was just a lead-in to the bit about PvP outselling AKIKO, which I thought that was a damn interesting and relevant bit of information to add to the conversation, especially after that one guy lambasted you for even thinking that PvP was anywhere near as close to good as AKIKO (which is of course subjective and HIGHLY debatable). That's not "bragging" (it was posted by me, your arch nemesis!), it's just a relevant fact. I thought it would be a conversation-starter ("Hey, why is a book of mediocre comic strips about gaming outselling one of the most magical and amazing fantasy comic books of all-time?").

You mentioning that you thought AKIKO ended months ago seems just as insulting as that. If you only want a bunch of comments praising AKIKO and nothing that could possibly offend Crilley's delicate eyes, fine, it's your site.

As for the "chastising you," this is something you gave me permission to do! I was talking to you on ICQ about a week ago how I'm offering a sketch with my comic book subscriptions for less than you're charging for a single sketch, and you told me I should play that up! I wasn't chastising you, I was just telling my readers that this is a good deal. And I put in a plug for your art sales at the same time. And with my luck, I bet more of my readers went and bought Skull sketches from you than bought a sub to my book.

I think (too much, probably) before I say anything. It's YOU who needs to think before you say things, MAN.
________

I replied that to Scott about an hour ago.

Added comment: I did not post a link to SUPEROSITY, it was in my damn SIGNATURE. Just like your link is in your signature. I didn't know I even had a signature or not on your comments thing.

Bottom line: Scott Kurtz is INSANE. Period.

posted 06-13-2001 03:18 PM            

I blundered into a minefield!

posted 06-13-2001 04:50 PM            

Or, at the very least, Orko.

posted 06-13-2001 08:00 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chris Crosby:
Don't mind us, just a stupid feud we've had for years. It's fun! He is Skeletor and I am He-Man!

Or, at the very least, Orko.

---

I'd consider Gav to be a little more useful than Man-At-Arms...

Would Maritza be Teela?

posted 06-13-2001 08:07 PM            

Tatsuya would be King Randor. And I expect to see "King Randor" above his name in a SINFEST strip soon...

posted 06-14-2001 02:05 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chris Crosby:
No, I think Maritza would be Queen Marlena. She would rule Eternia well!
Tatsuya would be King Randor.

---

It's too bad keenparody is defunct (and that I can't draw). This would make a great bunch of strips.

posted 06-14-2001 04:38 AM         

Quite why his aggression is directed at Chris and Superosity I don't know. Perhaps he recognises that there are twice the number of ideas in one Superosity strip than he can manage in a week of his mundane gaming comic.

Perhaps he is also insecure based on the fact that the sketches he charges for are, based on the samples on his site, shoddy.

posted 06-14-2001 07:43 AM            

quote:

---

Too much time spent attacking me got you depressed, Kurtz? Poor baby.

---

No, I'm just amazed that you can take somehing as blatant as my stab at your inappropriate behavior and twist it into the concept that you and I are opponants. I've seen you mention twice now that you are my "arch-nemesis."

This is such typical behavior from you. You'll go to such great lengths to get yourself noticed, to the point of being annoying and now you're doing it again. Suddenly there is this grand and bizzare conflict between us that's ages old. Like Bond and Dr. No.

You're not my arch nemesis, you're not my enemy, you're not my opponant.

quote:

---

Quite why his aggression is directed at Chris and Superosity I don't know. Perhaps he recognises that there are twice the number of ideas in one Superosity strip than he can manage in a week of his mundane gaming comic.

---

If it makes you comfortable to lay all the success of PvP on the fact that it's a gaming comic then please, by all means, wrap yourself safely up in that security blanket. You know as well as I do that PvP goes beyond being just a gaming comic. It's obviously connecting with people in and outside that niche. Saying PvP's success is because it's about gaming is like saying M.A.S.H. was successful because it was an ARMY show.

quote:

---

Perhaps he is also insecure based on the fact that the sketches he charges for are, based on the samples on his site, shoddy.

---

No one seems to share in your opinion. Displaying samples on the site of sketches I had already done did a lot to increase sales. Once people saw what they would actually get, they were inclined to take the plunge and order one.

quote:

---

Squabbling like this does neither party any favours. Scott's bullying tactics are sad and bizarre, and Chris should learn to ignore the taunts and PvP in general.

---

posted 06-14-2001 08:40 AM            

quote:

---

But I decided to take a shot at Crosby
for being such a pathetic, self-depricating whiner and I'll play it out.

---

Well, as long as you're not going to be all inflamatory and stuff.

Oh, wait, this must be the wrong board...

posted 06-14-2001 09:06 AM            

Whether you believe PvP's success to be justified or not, the truth of the matter is that it's successful. You're confused as to why, out of the blue, someone "with such a successful comic" would be so aggressive towards Crosby.

I'm telling you, he's bothersome enough to get someone with a popular web comic to be THAT aggressive towards him.

posted 06-14-2001 09:57 AM            

Baby J is crying now.

posted 06-14-2001 10:49 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scott Kurtz:
Why would I manufacture a conflict between Chris Crosby and myself? What do I have to gain from it?

---

Who posted this thread in the first place? Some of us don't read the PvP forum, and would never have known or cared about this if it hadn't been for a South-Park-esque cartoon that someone clearly took time out of their day in putting together.

posted 06-14-2001 10:53 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scott Kurtz:
Suddenly there is this grand and bizzare conflict between us that's ages old. Like Bond and Dr. No.

---

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Chris might have been joking at that point. We're cartoonists. WE DO THAT.

posted 06-14-2001 11:30 AM            

i bet the next step is PVP PREMIUM, for which you get access to the comic, the messageboards AND a graphics library of Chris Crosby South Park images!

PS: hey Croz, how come i haven't gotten my free nude massage with my PREMIUM sign up yet? you STEEENK.

posted 06-14-2001 11:33 AM            

I don't know much about the "past" that exists between the two of you, Scott and Chris, but I see two talented toonists fighting over what seems to be like miscommunication and misunderstandings on both sides?

I honestly don't think that either of you are purposely trying to antagonize the other, and I don't think that either of you should be seen as the "bad guy"...

I was impressed when I saw Chris add levity with the He-man references, in what seemed like an attempt to defuse the situation, but then the "poor baby" line seemed surprising and unwarranted...

Scott's *sigh* likewise seems a bit off, but perhaps that's because he took the levity the wrong way... still, he could have kept the sigh to himself at that point, or adressed chris directly.

Really, I suspect that neither of you should or would usually squabble like this under normal circumstances, and i can only guess that it's due to ome sort of defensive reaction on both parts which may stem from this "long-standing feud," if it does exist.

Really, tho -- you're both mature adults, and have proven it to others time and again, and you both work incredibly hard to achieve your different yet not diametrically opposed cartooning goals. You shouldn't get like this as it doesn't help either of you, when both of you working together could go a much longer way, methinks.

as both scott and chris have proven so far, it's DAMN DIFFICULT to survivew in the webcomics world, especially if you want to make a living at it rather than a hobby... and as such, webtoonists should be on the same side, not against each other...

...

In regards to kitkat's comments, i think THOSE were out of line... Pretty much EVERY cartoonist has a certain level of insecurity -- hell, ANY creative person does.

Attacking his comic with the tired old line of "it's a gaming comic" has no purpose in their initial argument, and suggests that kitkat is a) biased against Scott, b) biased against gaming comics, c) doesn't read much or any of PvP to make such a call, d) just felt like flaming with an unoriginal line...

yes, there are crappy gaming strips out there that rehash tired clichés, but there are likewise crappy non-gaming strips out there, too...

Both Chris and Scott have GOOD comics, even if their loosely-defined "genres" are different...

attacking his art just furthers the impression that you ARE biased against Scott for whatever reasons, and have decided to go WAYYYY off topic to attack him...

...

while it's all well and good to see you all want to defend our benevolent big lug, chris is a grown man and can defend himself, and, while both he and scott were, in my opinion, arguing over something that seems just a misunderstanding tainted by accumulated feelings for each other, at least they kept to the topic and addressed the points they disagreed with.

...

thomas: just because it was in the PvP thread and not here doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. If Scott felt that Chris had "wronged" him in on the PvP boards first, and then retaliated here, that doesn't make either of them right, but certainly not only Scott as wrong.

Granted, Scott's posting of the comic may have been an overly strong reaction, since he had already done the mature thing and written to Chris. Then again, I also laughed when I first saw the comic, since I read it as parody, not attack.

Of course, it WAS only a misunderstanding, and NONE of this should have happened in the first place!

Ah... I dunno.

Why am I even trying to be diplomatic here?

To me, it just seems that people rag on both of these cartoonists for little to NO justifiable reason, and look for the tiniest excuses to do so.

And as for the two cartoonists, whose work and accomplishments I respect and admire very much?

Well, I think they're both going overboard here, and making what should have been a simple misunderstanding into a pointless, nigh-childish war.

You both seem much wiser and maturer than this -- try to calm down and resolve this so that everyone's happy, or at least a whole lot less peeved.

------------------
VOTE TALKING SIGN IN '01!

posted 06-14-2001 11:36 AM            

Enter your user name and password to TUG ON MY WANG, scruffy.

Diesel Sweeties SUX.

posted 06-14-2001 11:38 AM            

NO ONE WILL EVER GO TO YAHOO.

posted 06-14-2001 12:05 PM            

i'm gonna hit him with some texas toast.

*POW*

posted 06-14-2001 12:07 PM            

R Stevens, prepare to feel my fists of fury. Ka-pow, bitch.

posted 06-14-2001 12:26 PM            

I think Chris and Scott should have a big hug and make friends because war is stupid, and people are stupid.

posted 06-14-2001 12:31 PM            

Hey! Maybe I should go up to some of these guys with the signs in down town Issaquah and see what their ad rates are..

See! The internet is cool!

Clint http://www.whenigrowup.net/

posted 06-14-2001 01:54 PM            

All right, hopefully this is the last thing I say on the subject, then I'll try to never talk to Scott Kurtz again.

As the wise creator of SPORKMAN could tell, the "I'm He-Man and you're Skeletor" thing was an obvious joke, just as saying "Hey, link to my site because I told you AKIKO still exists!" was an obvious in-joke, a self-parody. How could anyone possibly think that you would link to me because of that? Do you not have a sense of humor in the least, or am I telling my jokes wrong?

I do sort of *jokingly* feel like we're "arch-nemesis," as I've never really had this sort of weird angry relationship with anyone else, but maybe you have, and that's OK. You're older than me.

I am NOT trying to get attention for myself by talking to you, period. Yesterday was HORRIBLE. The whole day was just spent replying to people bashing me and feeling bad about it, because of you. Not only did you chew me out in an E-Mail, but you posted publicly that stupid cartoon, apparently after being unsatisfied with my self-parody. That cartoon, which might've been a fairly accurate satire two years ago when I really was a somewhat shameless self-promoter (which of course is a horrible sin I should be murdered for), right now is totally INACCURATE considering I haven't done anything like that in years, having been beaten down by the online comic world and not caring who visits my strip anymore. It was like doing a Clinton/Lewinsky editorial cartoon in 2001 and expecting a newspaper to publish it. The fact that you and other people thought the gag was bang-on was just depressing.

The main thing is, every time something like this happens between us, it's because of you. I did not post a cartoon on the Keenspot message board attacking you. I did not badmouth you on GameSpy.com for using a quote posted publicly by you that I had no idea you had a problem with (and would've stopped using immediately if you asked). I did not use your character in my strip prominently and then attack you when you had the GALL to actually ask for credit or a link in return.

That was you, not me. If you have a problem with me, YOU always take it public instead of talking to me first. You think you know everything, and you read things that aren't there into everything I say.

I may sometimes be pathetic and whiny, I admit that. But you, sir, can sometimes be a real jerk.

posted 06-14-2001 02:32 PM            

> Crosby is the one who's constantly
> manufacturing the relationship, be
> it a good one or a bad one, between us.

Okay, I re-read this thread and just had to poke some holes into that one quote. Anything that has happened in our "relationship," good or bad, has been manufactured by you.

You're the one who ICQ messages me all the time (at least once or twice a week) for friendly chats, I've hardly ever ICQ'd you.

You're the one who suggested we swap "fan art" last year.

You're the one who came to me a few months ago and asked if I would link to your disappointing Berke Breathed interview in the Keenspot Newsbox, and then threw a GIANT TANTRUM when I didn't immediately agree to it (I explained that I had to discuss it with Darren Bleuel and the other Keenspot execs first, which you couldn't understand for some insane reason). Then, when we did agree, you refused to put the interview on a seperate page. You made people visit your homepage if they wanted to read the interview (talk about shameless self-promotion!).

You're always initiating contact with me, not the other way around.

------------------
Your Pal,
Chris Crosby
Keenspot Entertainment
http://www.keenspot.com/
Superosity
http://www.superosity.com/

posted 06-14-2001 02:47 PM            

The next person who posts is getting an ass-kicking by me at the Con.

I'm not kidding.

posted 06-14-2001 03:01 PM            

)*(

posted 06-14-2001 03:01 PM            

Wait, I see the problem...I forgot to post a after the cartoon.

posted 06-14-2001 03:12 PM            

1. R Stevens
   
2. Scott Kurtz
   

posted 06-14-2001 03:24 PM            

You're the one who's always attacking my work. You've said it in these threads yesterday and today alone. You've called it a mediocre strip and you say the interview with Breathed is lacking and my character sketches are too expensive....and none of that is true.

The evidence is in about PvP Chris, people like it. I love drawing it, we're all happy with it. Getting that interview with Berke Breathed was such an act of pure goodness and we were so excited about it and you can sit there and say that it's lacking...when clearly it's not.

Dude the problem I have isn't with your work it's with you and the crazy ass way you operate.

The problem you have is with my work. And the work is good and it's entertaining people and it's not malicious or substandard or unoriginal. And it's not coming easy, it's a struggle to keep the quality high just as it is for every cartoonist who gives a shit about their craft.

posted 06-14-2001 03:37 PM            

Having said that,...

You guys are just tweaking each others noses and then reacting.

You both need a time out.

In the corner,... now!